Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/25/1995 01:15 PM Senate HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SHES - 3/25/95
SB 98 PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT OF 1995
Number 002
CHAIRMAN GREEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 1:15 p.m. She introduced
SB 98 as the only order of business before the committee. She then
called the first person to testify.
KIM SWIFT, testifying from Mat-Su, discussed her brother's
situation. Her brother is very poor, but somehow manages to stay
off welfare and attend night school even with two daughters. She
praised the committee for reviewing welfare reform.
ROBERT HANSEN, testifying from Mat-Su, explained that due to an
accident he had been dubbed a retard. He said that he could not
find a job. Although he has changed his ways from alcohol and
drugs to raising a family, the state wants to penalize him. Mr.
Hansen emphasized that SB 98 used the term reform not elimination.
LARRY BUCHHOLZ, Self Help for the Hard of Hearing Alaskans, said
that he was present to heighten the committee's awareness of hard
of hearing communication issues as they apply to the funding
support.
SENATOR ELLIS asked Mr. Buchholz to familiarize the committee with
some of the issues that hard of hearing Alaskans on assistance face
when attempting self-sufficiency. What are the employment
opportunities for deaf and hard of hearing people? Senator Ellis
commented that welfare reform tries to promote self-sufficiency
although, some law-makers may not realize who is on the welfare
rolls and how self-sufficient they really are.
Number 096
LARRY BUCHHOLZ stated that he faces insurmountable challenges when
attempting to find employment for deaf and hard of hearing
individuals. He explained that the communication impaired culture
and deaf persons must access sign language which poses difficulties
in lay life. Although deaf persons would be hired and their
employers would work with them to learn communication systems, that
employment seldom works out long-term. He noted that this creates
the need to periodically revisit job placement. He pointed out
that in normal hearing situations language is misunderstood, but
with the hearing impaired the misunderstanding increases which
causes the hearing impaired individual to isolate themselves.
KATIE HURLEY, testifying from Mat-Su, informed the committee that
she had just returned from the Governor's Prayer Breakfast in
Anchorage. The guest speaker was Dr. Tony Campola, an Evangelical
Christian, who addressed the need for everyone to help those in
need in our communities, state and nation. She said that there is
no love or caring in SB 98. She objected to the singling out of
young women for punishment. Ms. Hurley commented that there is
much discussion about pregnant teens, crack mothers, and welfare
queens; where are the impregnating teens, crack fathers and welfare
kings? She asked where the jobs were that welfare recipients are
expected to get.
Number 168
CHAIRMAN GREEN pointed out that SB 98 as well as the governor's
bill were attempting to address that issue.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if the religious leader Ms. Hurley had spoken
of had discussed the religious communities attitude toward the
provisions of the welfare changes. KATIE HURLEY said that Dr.
Campola had apologized for those Christian leaders who had not
helped those at the bottom of the scale. Ms. Hurley commented that
many people applauded Dr. Campola.
SENATOR ELLIS noted that he had heard nothing from Alaskan
religious leaders regarding the provisions that many believe will
increase the abortion rate. There also has been no testimony
regarding whether churches would be willing to come forward and
help if federal and state level cuts are made. KATIE HURLEY
commented that she had urged fellow congregation members to come to
these hearings. Ms. Hurley did not understand why they did not
come; that serves as a witness to the teachings of Jesus. Ms.
Hurley informed everyone that Dr. Campola would be in Juneau this
weekend.
SENATOR LEMAN noted that he too had attended the Governor's Prayer
Breakfast. He said that people hear what they want to hear. Dr.
Campola discussed the need to provide for the poor and needy among
us, but he did not suggest that it be provided by the government.
Senator Leman stated that Dr. Campola suggested that people as
individuals should become involved. Senator Leman asked if Robert
Blackmon could testify next due to his wife's medical emergency.
Number 232
ROBERT BLACKMON, testifying from Anchorage, stated that
Representative Pete Kott would help the handicapped and disabled.
He inquired as to what happens when their dividends are taken away.
He informed the committee that he and his wife, who is disabled,
were on a fixed income. He explained that if they lose their
dividend they would not have any transportation. Mr. Blackmon
asked about the welfare for the handicap.
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated that SB 98 does not intend to impact handicap
individuals in any way. She noted that work on programs for the
developmentally disabled had not yet begun.
SENATOR ELLIS pointed out that SB 98, the current version, does not
contain the hold harmless issue. Senator Phillips and
Representative Kott have bills that would deny permanent fund
dividends to people who receive assistance; those bills are much
further along in the legislative process toward becoming law.
Senator Ellis acknowledged that who would be denied dividends is a
complicated process. He encouraged Mr. Blackmon to follow those
bills and said that he would send him information regarding the
current status of those bills. Senator Ellis noted that SB 98 does
include rateable reductions for Adult Public Assistance (APA) and
AFDC as well as changes in the Medicaid and General Relief
Assistance Programs. He urged Mr. Blackmon to get a copy of SB 98
and review the rateable reductions.
TONY RAUH, testifying from Anchorage, informed the committee that
he and his wife were both disabled. Both receive Supplemental
Security Income (SSI), APA, and medical coupons. He indicated that
while the State of Alaska wants to cut those programs, the last
governor had large travel expenses to the lower 48. He suggested
that travel expenses be cut instead of the budget. He urged the
committee not to cut the services of SSI, APA, and medical coupons
for the disabled. He stated that persons who receive AFDC should
have a percentage of their permanent fund dividend withheld.
Number 296
DAVID WOLFE informed the committee that he is an Eligibility
Technician III who investigates allegations of welfare fraud for
the Division of Public Assistance in the Department of Health and
Social Services. He supported SB 98; it is a good first step
towards eliminating this problem from society. He stated that
welfare fraud is rampant in Alaska. He suggested that based upon
his experience, about 30 to 50 percent of welfare cases are based
on fraudulent information. This percentage would increase in the
rural areas. He asserted that the current welfare system in Alaska
does nothing more than subsidize non-productivity. Alaska's
benefit levels are the highest in the nation which attract
recipients to Alaska in great numbers.
Mr. Wolfe stated that former director, Jan Hansen, did everything
in her power to convince the previous legislature and governor that
welfare fraud was not a problem in Alaska. He opposed Ms. Hansen
and said that people are coming to Alaska for the higher welfare
benefits. The recipients who come to Alaska for the benefits come
from states with stricter fraud control; they know how to
manipulate the system. Alaska's generous benefits do not provide
an incentive to go off the program. He noted that Alaska's
programs seem to give more discretionary income to a recipient than
someone who has to work for their income. He expressed much
frustration with the fraud in Alaska.
Mr. Wolfe explained that the fraud division in Anchorage does a
admirable job with its limited resources. Jan Hansen cut four
positions in the division. Sometimes it takes up to six months
after fraud has been discovered to even assign an investigator. He
recognized that there are truly needy people who need assistance
until they become self-sufficient. He said that he has seen too
many adults teach their children how to receive welfare when they
grow up. The system is broken and needs to be fixed now. He
stated that benefit levels should be reduced drastically. Mr.
Wolfe indicated that individuals should not be in a position where
welfare pays more than a good paying job.
SENATOR LEMAN expressed interest in having Mr. Wolfe's written
testimony. He felt that the issues of fraud and the migration of
people to Alaska for the welfare benefits should be pursued by the
committee. Senator Leman noted that other case workers had
conveyed the same information as Mr. Wolfe.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if Mr. Wolfe had said that Jan Hansen had cut
four people from the fraud unit. DAVID WOLFE explained that Ms.
Hansen cut four positions, two of which were funded but were not
filled and the other two were laid off.
Number 367
SENATOR ELLIS asked if those cuts had any connection to the funding
level Ms. Hansen received or was it merely a discretionary measure.
Senator Ellis noted that Governor Hickel had always said that fraud
was a high priority. Ms. Hansen worked for Governor Hickel.
Senator Ellis said that this sounded very interesting.
DAVID WOLFE clarified that his testimony was his own personal
opinion. In response to Senator Ellis, Mr. Wolfe claimed that Ms.
Hansen was building her own empire. Ms. Hansen wanted to convince
everyone that there was less than two to three percent fraud in the
entire system.
SENATOR ELLIS inquired as to Mr. Wolfe's opinion of the permanent
fund dividend of people on public assistance. DAVID WOLFE felt
that the aged, disabled and those who receive APA should retain
their dividend. Of those receiving AFDC and Food Stamps, a limited
amount should receive their dividend. Mr. Wolfe expressed the need
to eliminate the hold harmless program for AFDC and food stamps.
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced that testimony would need to be no more
than three minutes due to the number of people remaining to
testify.
PUDGE KLEINKAUF, testifying from Anchorage, informed the committee
that she was an attorney and a social worker and had been involved
with AFDC. She directed the committee to page 4 of the CS. The
section regarding ineligibility for assistance raises serious legal
questions regarding an individual's constitutional right. Page 6,
line 20 increases the amount of assistance to an individual who is
caring for a child that would otherwise be eligible for AFDC. The
section goes on to decrease the amount of assistance received by a
parent for a dependent child. She could not believe that was what
the committee had intended.
Ms. Kleinkauf recommended amending the parentage establishment
section on page 7, line 13. A child should not be penalized for
the lengthy time it can take to establish parentage. She was
applauded the JOBS section on page 8 which addresses previous
concerns about the lack of child care and job training. She
suggested that more money be directed towards jobs. In regard to
page 9, Ms. Kleinkauf pointed out that the California Supreme Court
and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals had found the two-tier
payment system to be unconstitutional. That issue is now before
the U.S. Supreme Court. The decision is Green vs. Anderson.
Number 428
CHAIRMAN GREEN informed Ms. Kleinkauf that many of her points were
taken up yesterday in the department's testimony and several of the
issues are being reviewed. Chairman Green noted that the Wisconsin
two-tier system has not been challenged; it has been in place since
July of 1994. She felt that the wording received the waiver after
the California decision; its felt the rewording would allow this
provision to be constitutional.
LESTER CAIN, an owner and operator of a small mobile home park in
Anchorage since 1975, explained that since the mobile home park has
not been his sole source of income his rent has been kept at a
reasonable level. He noted that he had many low income tenants due
to the low rent. Over the past 20 years, Mr. Cain said that he has
seen many abuses of the welfare system. He has had second and
third generation welfare recipients who felt that assistance was
their right and their job. Such individuals have no desire to seek
employment because they can receive more money from assistance than
through work. He discussed many examples of abuses of the welfare
system. In conclusion, Mr. Cain suggested the following
requirements: a residency requirement before applying for
assistance is allowed, a job training and seeking requirement, and
a time limit for able-bodied persons to be on the system.
LYNNE MURPHY, representing Prisoner of Welfare Working on Winning,
stated that they are for welfare reform, but our nose should not be
cut off to spite our face. She expressed frustration with welfare
fraud. She asserted that the legislators are illustrating the
difference between the poor and rich in society. Ms. Murphy noted
that she donates over 200 hours to Victims for Justice. She
pointed out that SB 98 places the burden on the backs of the poor
and the disabled, the next step will be the middle-class. After
that the permanent fund will probably be eliminated. She declared
that it is not fair and should be stopped. She emphasized that all
this committee would accomplish is the segregation of another
group. Ms. Murphy asserted that SB 98 should be rewritten in order
to make it understandable for the minority group and it should be
voted on. She suggested that the wealthy, a state worker earning
$100,000 per year, donate their permanent fund dividend.
Number 504
KIMBERLY ANSAKNOK, testifying from Fairbanks, explained that she
has been labelled a bad mother when she did not have a job, when
she placed her child in daycare, and later when she took time off
to care for her child. She explained that the JOBS program has
made it possible for her to further her education while still being
able to raise her daughter. She stated that if the JOBS program
receives funding cuts, she would not be able to continue the road
toward self-sufficiency for herself and her daughter.
DON SHIRCEL, an administrator responsible for a range of social
security programs in the interior, stated that the CS for SB 98 is
mean-spirited, ill-conceived, punitive to children and women,
exclusive to rural families, and short-sighted. He noted the work
being done with Congressman Young's office to craft federal
legislation that would address the unique needs of all of Alaska's
families and children. Congressman Young applauded the efforts of
many Alaskan native groups who have already reformed welfare
programs. The Alaska Federation of Natives and several native non-
profits have been working with the Commissioner of DHSS and DCRA to
explore creative options which would be tailored for all of
Alaska's families to become more self-sufficient.
Mr. Shircel recommended rewriting the bill in order to review a
wider range of options. He expressed concern with the time limits
in the bill; do you have the jobs for these people? The current
legislation seems to have disincentives for families engaged in
JOBS programming that would support them and allow them to obtain
the skills of self-sufficiency. Mr. Shircel asked if the committee
had considered that other federal funds are directly linked to the
state's standard of payments. The Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA)
general assistance program was lauded in the Anchorage Daily News
and the floor of the Congress as being a model program; that
program is directly tied to Alaska's standard. He indicated that
lowering the base would affect the BIA. He noted that 40 percent
of all federally recognized tribes are located in Alaska. In
conclusion, Mr. Shircel emphasized that this legislation
significantly impacts families, children and tribes. Therefore,
all the groups involved should come together to craft legislation
that makes sense and will employ people.
MARGE RUSSEL, testifying from Fairbanks, sympathized with everyone
who bore the burden of welfare reform. She explained her personal
experience with assistance programs which have allowed her to
attend school. The cuts to welfare programs that are scheduled
while placing money in programs that will not produce productive
individuals that will contribute to society did not seem
appropriate. This is not beneficial to Alaskan families. She
emphasized that low paying jobs do not cover transportation,
daycare, and living costs. Education is the key; cutting the funds
of current educational programs will threaten the lives of
Alaskans. She discussed how she utilizes her permanent fund
dividend; it would hurt her to lose it. The program does need to
be revamped because there is fraud, but those who do need
assistance could benefit from the program which would benefit
Alaska. SB 98 would hurt the truly needy people.
TAPE 95-24, SIDE B
Number 584
ROSALIE L'ECUYER felt that the bill appears to be hastily conceived
without consideration of those who need assistance or the
insufficiency of job opportunities, training and treatment
programs. The bill would benefit state personnel who would receive
the new jobs created to administer this cumbersome program while
state expenditures are increased in order to design new regulations
and support programs. Benefits would be decreased to the most
needy.
Ms. L'Ecuyer directed the committee to Section 8 when she asked if
paragraph (3) meant that an elderly person's APA benefits, "a
single-person household that does not consist of a dependent
child," would face a $77 reduction in their benefits. AS 47.25.354
limits AFDC to two years, AS 47.25.311 limits AFDC benefits to five
years which also mentions pregnant women; she did not know that a
woman could be pregnant for five years. In regard to AS 47.07.022
which refers to fraud, Ms. L'Ecuyer commented that often state
personnel treat all assistance recipients as potential perpetrators
of fraud. She explained that there are those on assistance who do
not read well and therefore, do not fully comprehend the
intricacies of the system. She requested an impact study on this
bill in order to establish who receives assistance, what programs
are available, what new state operational costs would be, and what
new state personnel would be hired. She urged the committee not to
harm the women and children receiving AFDC.
BARBARA AVILA stated that SB 98 is a good beginning. She felt that
the principle behind welfare reform and the reduction of welfare
fraud is commendable. However, Mr. Wolfe seemed to be unfairly
judgmental to most welfare recipients. Welfare attempts to foster
self-sufficiency and independence which should be remembered when
considering welfare reform. Fraud cases cannot be used to
generalize about all welfare recipients. She pointed out that
SB 98 would increase the work of non-profit agencies. For example,
if a welfare recipient has another child and does not receive any
more assistance, the recipient would have to turn to the Food Bank,
shelters and other non-profit agencies. She indicated the need to
take time with this issue.
Number 527
JOY GRIFFIN, a single mother, agreed with Ms. Avila that welfare
fraud is the exception not the norm. She informed the committee
that she was currently receiving AFDC, working, and participating
in the JOBS program. She noted that she had one more class before
she would graduate. SB 98 is unfair legislation. Welfare reform
is necessary and this legislation could work if all the options are
reviewed. She agreed with Section 28. Ms. Griffin pointed out
that under provisions, recipients are not encouraged to take full-
time low paying jobs due to the loss of Medicaid benefits.
Medicaid benefits should be expanded or encourage employers to
provide partial coverage. AFDC eligibility should be based upon
net income and not the number of hours worked. She noted that this
aspect could be written as a separate bill that could help people
now.
Ms. Griffin felt that the JOBS program works, but the program
should target people who want to work. She commented that the
encouragement should start at the beginning; when a client says
they want to participate in the JOBS program, that should happen
immediately. She emphasized that the committee should consider
those who are not fraudulent, but who use the system as a temporary
safety net. There are populations who are working hard. She
concluded by asking the committee to remember those populations.
SENATOR ELLIS announced that he was soliciting comments on the
governor's welfare reform proposal, SB 111. SB 111 has some
different approaches which he favored. He recommended that Ms.
Griffin, Ms. Russel and others go to the Legislative Information
Office in their area and request a copy of the Blueprint for
Welfare Reform and make comments.
HARVEY HARRIS, testifying from Glennallen, expressed concern with
SB 98. He questioned where the jobs would be. He discussed the
situation of rural areas with severe climates, the highest utility
prices and the fewest jobs available in Alaska. What is going to
happen to the elderly and the greatly disabled? He informed the
committee of his mother's situation in which half of her income is
used to pay for utilities and transportation. The cost of living
in the Copper Valley is outrageous. He hoped that people would be
kinder.
Number 443
BILL SPENCER, testifying from Mat-Su, stated that SB 98 was a good
idea, although it is not perfect. He applauded Section 47.25.352.
As oil revenues fall, a manner in which to cut benefits must be
developed. There should be fairness for those who will have to
pick up the tab when oil revenues decline. He reiterated the
concern regarding people moving to Alaska because of the benefits
and other programs such as the permanent fund dividend. He
discussed the influx into the Mat-Su valley. There is little work
which makes it cheaper to live there, receive welfare, and not
work; the local taxpayers pay for that. SB 98 is a good start.
GINGER BAIM, testifying from Dillingham, stated that she is a life
long resident of Alaska who has never received public assistance.
She stated that there are many things wrong with SB 98. SB 98
starts with the wrong premise. She emphasized that this measure
was an attack on the peace and dignity of women and children of
Alaska. SB 98 is a short-sighted, unworkable, mean-spirited,
politically motivated attack on all the Alaskans who have committed
the crime of being poor. SB 98 is based on the premise that people
receive welfare because they are lazy, irresponsible and do not
want to work. She informed everyone that 20 percent of all groups,
including legislators and non-profit agencies, are dead wood. Why
would welfare recipients be any different.
Ms. Baim pointed out that SB 98 requires welfare recipients to get
jobs, drug and alcohol treatment, and perfect birth control; none
of that exists. Welfare recipients are required not to be sick,
forego health insurance, and never retire. She stated that 50
percent of the welfare recipients in Alaska are children under the
age of 16. SB 98 does not speak to them, but rather addresses the
parents who are responsible for the care and upbringing of those
children. She emphasized that SB 98 would cut the benefits to
these children if their parents fail to live up to those
responsibilities. This bill is not going to work. She suggested
doubling the minimum wage and providing universal health care in
order to provide for appropriate welfare reform. Ms. Baim
commented that one of the biggest barriers to leaving the welfare
system is child care. Decent jobs and wages are necessary with a
support system to enable people to become what they can. SB 98
should be reconsidered and based upon the premise that everyone is
a free and independent human being with good motivations that care
for everyone.
Number 357
CARMEN LOWRY, testifying from Bethel, expressed outrage at SB 98.
SB 98 places welfare reform on the backs of the children who are
those that need the services most. She questioned the purpose of
all the penalties in SB 98; who does it penalize? She felt that
this would result in more neglected children who miss school.
Reform should be a positive and empowering process. She stated
that welfare recipients are not morally bad, they want opportunity.
Ms. Lowry asked the following questions regarding SB 98: what is
the reasoning behind time limits for AFDC recipients, what will
happen to those children born while their mothers are on welfare,
what are the long-term consequences of neglect, why should a
family's level of funding be determined by their prior state of
residence, how much would this save the state, where is the
statistical data for this, do you believe that people come to
Alaska to receive benefits, and why do you believe that poor people
are trying to defraud the system. She recommended cutting the
pension plans of state workers; that takes a lot of the state's
money. She did not support any of the efforts to withhold the
permanent fund dividend for individuals.
MARK JENKINS recognized that welfare reform is a chief concern in
reducing welfare dependency and the need to balance the state's
budget. However, SB 98 merely attempts to cut and balance the
budget on the backs of the poor. Historically, this has been done
to continue the cycle of poverty. SB 98 will not reduce teen
pregnancy, out of wedlock births, nor will it facilitate the
movement from poverty to a middle-class lifestyle. He commented
that this bill would negatively impact the most vulnerable poor
group, children of poor children. He urged the committee to review
the reality of life among the poor.
Number 296
PENNY BOATMAN, representing Prisoners of Welfare Working on
Winning, informed the committee that at their upcoming meeting
voter registration would be held so people would be able to vote.
She explained that the hold harmless was established in order to
ensure that low income Alaskans could enjoy the permanent fund
dividend on the same basis as other Alaskans without losing their
eligibility for assistance. Without the hold harmless for the
permanent fund dividend, families who receive AFDC, food stamps and
APA would become ineligible for assistance for one month each year
due to the retroactive budgeting of the assistance programs. She
gave an example of the resulting situation.
SENATOR LEMAN interjected that this hearing was for SB 98. He
noted that Ms. Boatman's comments seemed to be directed to SB 37.
PENNY BOATMAN said that she was attempting to put it all together.
PENNY BOATMAN addressed a conversation that she had with Senator
Phillips regarding the elimination of the hold harmless.
Number 227
TOM SWANNER, Chairman of the Anchorage Evangelical Task Force,
stated that the church is ready to take on the responsibility given
to them by Jesus Christ. He addressed the source of the problem
which he felt was cohabitation of couples. The source of children
needing aid is fornication which is personal responsibility. He
explained that Christians are the only group that says no to
behavior that creates the problem in welfare. On the other hand,
the state allows fornication. He noted that he had a case in the
U.S. Supreme Court due to his denial of these type of renters in
his rental units.
JOANNE SWANNER stated that she and her husband, as property
managers, see the welfare system up close. She agreed that some
people are truly needy, however, there is a lot of abuse that she
has seen. She discussed the abuses to the welfare system that she
had observed. There are a lot of good provisions in SB 98; minors
should be sent back to their homes where it is better for them.
She said that people do move to Alaska to receive welfare benefits.
Regarding the notion that there are no jobs available, there are
many things that can be done out of the home.
Number 122
YVONNE JACBSON, Director for the Alaska Alliance for the Mentally
Ill, informed the committee that the alliance owns an apartment
complex for the disabled. She felt that reducing AFDC when a child
lives with their parent was wrong. SB 98 is mean-spirited. She
urged everyone to review the governor's welfare reform bill. She
explained that she had personally worked with individuals receiving
interim assistance; how many people could live on $280 per month?
Making people pay back interim assistance money after they are
found to be ineligible does not make sense. This issue should
attempt to empower people.
LYNNE CORAL informed the committee that she is blind. She
reiterated concerns with the interim assistance provision. She
discussed the case in which a blind person must find transportation
to get to the doctor's appointment in order to certify their legal
blindness. This person may be poor and cannot pay for
transportation or the appointment, not to mention that they would
have to wait for the transportation and any needed tools such as a
magnifier. SB 98 would increase the stress of those persons who
are waiting for the determination of their eligibility. SB 98 is
not going to help the disabled. She mentioned the increase in the
per diem of state personnel and questioned what they would do if
they were in the situation of needing interim assistance during the
determination of a disability.
SANDY SANDERSON, President of the Alaska Independent Blind,
informed the committee that 80 percent of the nation is unemployed
or underemployed. He suggested redrafting SB 98. Legislation such
as SB 98 which affects the disabled, the elderly, those people who
are not poor, but are down on their luck....
TAPE 95-25, SIDE A
Number 018
In response to Mr. Wolfe's comments, Mr. Sanderson pointed out that
Alaska has a high cost of living. He questioned why SB 98 would
penalize the innocent when those who are fraudulent should be
penalized. He asserted that the rhetoric about getting a job is
merely that, rhetoric. He emphasized the need to honor welfare
recipients; do not use them as a scapegoat. He reiterated the
suggestion for legislators to donate their per diem which they did
not need in the first place.
THELMA BUCHHOLDT stated that she had been an Alaska Resident since
1965. She noted that she would address Sections 3, 4, and 17. She
informed the committee that she would prepare some statements
regarding the bill. CHAIRMAN GREEN interjected that she intended
to remove the majority of Sections 3 and 4, and a portion of
Section 7 of work draft O.
THELMA BUCHHOLDT said that she would get the most recent copy of
SB 98 and send the committee information regarding the Filipino
Community of Anchorage. She expressed concern with the provision
regarding aliens. The Filipino people have been in Alaska for a
number of years and have helped build the state of Alaska. SB 98
seems to indicate that aliens are not regarded well in this state.
Number 097
JODI DELANEY, testifying from Fairbanks, recounted her experience
growing up in Alaska. She inquired as to what bureaucratic
responsibility act would go along with SB 98. There is abuse in
the job of the bureaucrats. She asked if the committee had a
proposal changing how the system is run.
CHAIRMAN GREEN explained that SB 98 attempts to make the system
more flexible.
JODI DELANEY discussed her situation in which she was denied
unemployment benefits when she attended school out of state because
she was not a full-time student. She said that she was forced onto
the welfare roll. She discussed all the cuts that may happen and
pointed out that people end up shuffling between state and federal
programs. She thanked all the churches that have helped. She
pointed out that when the state wants to save a program, they
really work at it. In Anchorage, nine tables were set up in a mall
in order to save the Women, Infants, and Children Nutrition (WIC)
program. A lot of bureaucrats are merely saving their jobs. She
emphasized the need for those bureaucrats to have the same interest
in the families as the programs in which jobs would be lost. In
conclusion, she urged the committee to listen to everyone because
they live through the system.
RONDI ALDRIDGE said that she was speaking for disabled individuals
and those receiving medical and anyone who depends upon any of the
state agencies. She informed the committee that her husband would
probably be disabled for the rest of his life. They receive AFDC
in order to support her three children which are not her husband's.
Her children's father will not pay child support. She felt that
taking away the permanent fund would penalize her family even more.
She thanked Representative Davies for replying to her public
opinion message regarding HB 98.
Number 194
RONNIE ROSENBURG, Director of Case Management Services at the
Fairbanks Resource Agency, informed the committee that she was a
nurse and an attorney as well as the guardian for APA recipients
with a traumatic brain injury such as June Weinstock. On behalf of
Ms. Weinstock and the 62 developmentally disabled adults that she
represents who experience a range of disabling conditions. She
also noted that she was speaking as a certified Medicaid care
coordinator. Section 8 paragraph (3) indicates a $77 reduction in
APA benefits to single-person households containing disabled
adults. This reduction must be reviewed in context. Last years
Medicaid reductions and the Medicaid co-pay system eliminated
dental, hearing, vision, and speech therapy services for that
community. Her clients use those services in a much higher
proportion than does the average community member.
Ms. Rosenburg did not know how she would make ends meet for her
clients when the loss of the permanent fund is considered as well
as the federal plans to reduce Section VIII housing. Renting
housing for disabled adults is very difficult. She stated that
many of her clients have less than $2 per month left for
discretionary spending. Reducing APA by $77 per month will not
work. Furthermore, reducing their dividend would leave no money
for their dental needs or their co-payments. She hoped that SB 98
would be reconsidered.
CHAIRMAN GREEN commented that most of the issues concerning Ms.
Rosenburg had been eliminated from SB 98.
RONNIE ROSENBURG asked if paragraph (3) of Section 8 on page 7 of
the version O CS was being eliminated. CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified
that this language does not refer to APA. In response to Ms.
Rosenburg, Chairman Green agreed that APA to disabled individuals
would not be reduced. This language refers to AFDC.
SENATOR ELLIS interjected that one could not receive AFDC unless
they have children.
RONNIE ROSENBURG asked how a single-person household that does not
consist of a pregnant woman could receive AFDC. CHAIRMAN GREEN
explained that it deals with a women who goes on public assistance
when she is pregnant. That will be reviewed.
Number 276
KATHRYN NINMER, testifying from Fairbanks, stated that SB 98 has
good and bad provisions. She felt that it is a step backwards to
suggest teen parents live with an adult in a foster home or a
maternity home nor is it practical to make them live with their
parents. Requiring a teen parent to remain at home until they
receive their GED or high school diploma has great merits.
Ms. Ninmer felt that requiring AFDC recipients to sign the personal
responsibility contract is demeaning and belittling; this is an
exercise in self destruction. Steps must be taken to prevent
chronic welfarism, but the steps should be positive. She indicated
that savings to the program could come from other sources such as
expanding child support enforcement. Dead beat and absent parents
should bear the majority of the responsibility of housing and
feeding their children. She also suggested strengthening fraud
investigation.
Ms. Ninmer emphasized that the issue should be kept in perspective.
Many families have used the AFDC programs on a temporary basis
until they are on their feet. The free loaders and abusers of the
system should be eliminated. The important factor is to make it
inviting to become independent not impossible to do the best in a
bad situation. She pointed out that legislators should remember
that when they use public money for their power lunches, travel
expenses and hotel bills, the money is reimbursable because money
is available that could have fed innocent children. She urged the
rejection of SB 98 as currently written.
CHRISTINA KURLYLO stated that she was not against welfare reform;
however, able people on welfare want to work. There should be more
funding to programs that promote work rather than cutting
assistance. She pointed out that a key component is missing;
parents are expected work, but child care is not addressed. She
recommended an increase in funding of day care assistance. Section
3 should be rewritten in a way that does not take away the dividend
from poverty stricken children and adults.
Ms. Kurlylo acknowledged that SB 98 has some positive components
such as Sections 17, 25, and 28. However, she expressed concern
with the negative effects of SB 98. Section 5 violates the federal
and state equal protection clause because low income residents are
treated differently. Sections 7-9 raises concerns regarding the
affects of these provisions on the children. She stated that
Section 11 and 18 seem to indicate that low income people receiving
assistance cannot quit a job. Ms. Kurlylo emphasized that children
are victims; what message is sent to children when their assistance
is reduced and what message is being sent to their parents?
Children are Alaska's future, if the children cannot be taken care
of today what happens to tomorrow?
Number 369
DENNIS MILLHOUSE, testifying from Anchorage, explained that he had
come as an employer, educator, and landlord in order to listen to
the testimony. Welfare is the worst thing that can be done to any
family. He discussed pregnant teens going on the welfare roll;
these teens have not contributed to the system. He stated that
there should be more welfare fraud investigators. He discussed his
experience with his own business in which people turn down work
because they lose various forms of assistance; it is a no win
situation for these people. Mr. Millhouse indicated the need for
continued subsidized day care assistance. There should be some
accountability with welfare. SB 98 is a start. He explained that
welfare should be temporary situation.
DAVID STRONG informed the committee that he is physically disabled
and married to a woman with a brain injury. They are raising a
disabled step child with learning disabilities. He discussed how
the State of Alaska has punished him. How long will the disabled
be punished? Although budget cuts are necessary, SB 98 should be
thrown away.
JENNIFER MASON, testifying from Sitka, informed the committee that
welfare has helped her. Welfare does help children, it provides
medical benefits, food, and housing for children. She did not
understand how benefits could be cut when it is not enough to live
on. The rich are subsidized a lot more than the poor.
Number 447
DOUG WHITE informed the committee that he works for the University
of Alaska. He addressed the notion of people being drawn to Alaska
due to its high benefit levels. Alaska is one of the few states
that does not have a state sales tax or a state income tax. From
those two issues Mr. White concluded that Alaska is not only a draw
for welfare recipients, but also a draw to those who do not want to
pay their fair share and help others.
W. DEERING JONES, testifying from Mat-Su, stated that he was for SB
98. He related his personal experiences with neighbors on welfare.
He said that his area was a welfare haven. He emphasized that our
own should be taken care of not other people such as immigrants.
SB 98 is the first step. Why should I pay for people's benefits
when they misuse it?
MAUREEN MARKEY expressed disappointment in SB 98 because it seems
to be based upon some inaccurate assumptions. She pointed out that
one inaccurate assumption is that women impregnate themselves in
order to remain on welfare. That further marginalizes a
marginalized population, rural Alaskans. She explained that in
Southwest Alaska jobs in the villages range from two or three
positions at a village store, one or two at the post office and an
airline agent. There are also some jobs in the local school, but
those positions are usually staffed by people from outside the
state. Where are the other jobs that people must take when they
are cut from AFDC?
Ms. Markey reiterated the question of who would pick up the
children when they are cut from funding. SB 98 seems to assume
that people randomly become single parents because they can. There
are serious reasons why women, young and old, are raising children
alone; those reasons should be considered. She informed the
committee that Alaska has the highest rate of domestic violence and
sexual assault. Alaska also has the fourth highest rate of child
abuse in the nation. If a woman gains the courage to leave an
abusive and unhealthy family in order to raise and nurture her
children alone, she should not be judged and should receive
benefits.
Number 505
J. P. CREIGHTON, an immigrant from Illinois, related to the
testimony of Mr. Jones whom he thought sounded like an immigrant
himself. Perhaps, Mr. Jones should read the words inscribed on the
Statute of Liberty. SB 98 should be thrown away. He related his
experiences with welfare. He informed the committee of his work
history in Alaska. He indicated that the notion that people come
to Alaska specifically for welfare benefits is not true. Most
people come to Alaska to work. Mr. Creighton recommended the
development of a state infrastructure which does not require that
people be on welfare.
BARBARA SUNDAY, testifying from Fairbanks, informed the committee
that she was not on welfare or AFDC, but that she does receive
child care assistance. She related her experience in which her
pregnant daughter would be going on welfare because she is not in
a position to help her daughter. Ms. Sunday pointed out that SB 98
would require her daughter to live at home with her. Ms. Sunday
lives in an efficiency apartment with two young children. She
indicated that SB 98 would push more children underground. The
flaws and dead beat people of the system should be addressed. She
hoped that SB 98 would be scrapped. The children are our future.
LOUISE CHARLES informed the committee that she would be reading the
testimony of one of her clients participating in the JOBS program.
This client has received AFDC benefits for five years
intermittently. She is currently seeking a certificate in office
management and technology. In Fort Yukon where she lives there are
few jobs available. She discussed her participation in the JOBS
program which has helped in becoming self-supporting. She
expressed the need to continue funding the JOBS program. Cutting
AFDC benefits and the JOBS program will hurt many people like
myself. She asked the legislators if they would be willing to help
her collect the $10,000 in child support owed to her by the father
of her children. If he paid his child support, then she would not
have to receive AFDC. She also asked if she would be allowed to
hunt and fish in order to feed her children.
Number 583
Ms. Charles then read the position of the Alaska Native Coalition
on Employment and Training. The Alaska Native Coalition is
composed of 13 native entities. Alaska Native Settlement Claims
Act (ANSCA) is concerned with welfare reform and will continue to
support the government to government relationship between the
federal government and the indian tribes. ANSCA supported a three
percent tribal set aside and the option to have their own welfare
programs. They support the concept of giving the money to the
local community.
TAPE 95-25, SIDE B
Ms. Charles continued with the position of the Alaska Native
Coalition. ANSCA supported economic development activities in
rural Alaska, especially for those dependent upon welfare
assistance programs. ANSCA opposed the limits on assistance,
especially in rural communities where there are no jobs. Welfare
reform will not work if there are no jobs. Proposed time limits
would increase the numbers of homeless and family breakdown while
further straining local resources. The proposed time limits would
not allow for the completion of education requirements or training
goals. The BIA General Assistance program is scheduled for a
potential 50 percent cut in funding. If a number of AFDC
recipients are cut from the welfare rolls, BIA General Assistance
will not necessarily be available as a safety net. Anyone eligible
for AFDC or SSI would not be eligible for BIA General Assistance.
Number 576
ANSCA is opposed to the denial of AFDC benefits to teen parents
based solely on age. Although they support the concept of teen
mothers living at home with responsible adults, there are
exceptions that should be considered. ANSCA supported child care
benefits. They recommended an expanded definition of work in order
to include subsistence activities, seasonal employment, and work
identified as beneficial to the tribal community. ANSCA supported
the AFDC program continuing as an entitlement program. ANSCA
supported the focus on incentives versus the implementation of
sanctions. ANSCA stated support for the implementation of a
welfare task force to be composed of state and tribal members.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if anyone on teleconference who had signed up
to testify wanted to testify. No one responded.
SHERRI GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, stated that she would attempt to
put her comments in writing and make that available for the
committee since she believed her testimony would require more than
the allotted time. She reminded the committee that welfare and
public assistance costs are approximately three percent of Alaska's
general fund budget. The Alaska Women's Lobby feels that Alaska's
nine and a half percent unemployment rate is the reason so many
people are receiving public assistance. She acknowledged that
Alaska does have the highest assistance level, but other states who
seem to have a lower assistance level may have other programs that
supplement their basic AFDC level. Alaska places all assistance in
the basic AFDC level. The average cost per person in a family
receiving welfare is $275 per month.
Ms. Goll noted that SB 98 calls for the five year limit to begin
unless a person caring for the child is permanently and totally
disabled. She indicated the need for a definition of disabled in
the legislation. Statistics illustrate that long-term AFDC
recipients have increased in Alaska. She pointed out that many of
those long-term AFDC recipients are disabled people with children
and people who have disabled children. Such parents often have
difficulties in finding work, work that would provide adequate
medical coverage for the needs of their children and work that
would allow flexibility for the care of this child.
Another group that faces barriers to employment and who are often
on the AFDC rolls are women in violent relationships. There have
been some studies that provide surprising results for this group.
When these women attempt to get off of welfare through work or
training, the battery increase. They are often beaten the night
before they are scheduled for an interview or a test which would
make the woman unpresentable. Many battered women need AFDC in
order to live an independent life and not continue in an abusive
relationship.
Number 505
In regard to teen parents, Ms. Goll pointed out that the average
age of an AFDC mother is 30; there are only 141 teens with regard
to this program. The Alaska Women's Lobby urged the committee to
eliminate the teen parent project in SB 98. She noted that there
is not much cost savings with this program. If there are 141 teens
of which half would probably fall under the exclusions in the bill
the discussion would be lowered to approximately 70 teens who are
living on AFDC outside of their parents home. How many of these
teens would be incorporated in this project if it is a
demonstration project? She expressed pleasure in the consideration
of the Chair regarding the personal responsibility of the boy's
parents. Ms. Goll did not think there would be a decline in teen
pregnancy if teen parents are required to live at home. Teens seem
to place little weight on future consequences. As Senator Ellis
pointed out, this change would probably increase abortions more
than it would decrease pregnancy. She agreed with the intended
message to teenagers that it is not fitting to be pregnant and
single. Teenage girls who can be made to value high school and
post high school training are going to be less likely to become
pregnant than those who do not. She agreed with governmental
policies which would immediately place teen parents in a high
school completion program in order to provide for self-sufficiency
for the family as well as receiving child support from the father.
Ms. Goll directed her discussion to the 20 percent reduction in
benefit levels as sanctions. She expressed concern with job
sanctions. If a woman has good cause for a job change she should
not lose that 20 percent of her benefit. She indicated that the
Department of Education covered her concerns regarding learnfare.
She did not feel that it was appropriate policy to punish children
for the behaviors of their parents.
Ms. Goll expressed concern with the $200 bonus for children in
welfare families who graduate from high school. Although she
agreed that there should be encouragement for children living in
poverty to get their education, is it fair to give a welfare child
$200 when there could be similarly poor families with working
parents. In other states that have adopted bridefare, giving an
extra benefit to the family, the step-parent becomes financially
responsible for the children. That is not the case in Alaska; here
the step-parent is not legally responsible for those children. Ms.
Goll did not believe that the benefits should be extended to the
person who married into the welfare family. If one person can
support their spouse then he/she should, but if the children are
not one of the spouses then child support from their other parent
should be sought. She felt that it would be costly.
In regard to the alcohol and drug testing and treatment, Ms. Goll
felt that all addicts should have treatment available. She hoped
that there would be fiscal notes that would allow that treatment.
This provision again punishes the children for the behavior of the
parent by taking away the assistance if the person continues to use
the prohibited substance. So many of these users that are addicted
to illegal and legal substances cannot help that they do not always
become cured with the initial treatment. The Alaska Women's Lobby
does not like the personal responsibility agreement as written
because it seems to only demean people who are already down and
out. Perhaps, the agreement could be done in regulations.
Ms. Goll expressed the need to reconsider the changes to the
interim assistance program; 60 percent of those who are initially
determined ineligible become eligible upon appeal. Workfare is a
good idea, but in order for it to apply statewide the definition of
work should be expanded. As a diversion program, the non-cash
program seems good however, in some cases food stamps and Medicaid
are not going to be the needed assistance. Therefore, some sort of
vendor payment could be utilized. She commented that the two-tier
payment system in Wisconsin has only be in existence since July.
Number 380
LEONARD FABICH, testifying from Russian Mission, noted that he had
already forwarded written testimony. He supported Mr. Wolfe's
testimony. He did believe that welfare rolls reflect the lack of
jobs in rural areas, but the dependence on welfare creates
individuals who do not want to find employment. Frequently people
do not take advantage of available positions. Mr. Fabich discussed
examples of this in his community. He discussed the abuse of the
Food Stamp program. He supported the committee's efforts with
welfare reform.
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced that she intended to move the bill out of
the HESS committee at the Monday meeting.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|